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 Post subject: 97 9000 Aero brake lines
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:11 am
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In the process of fitting flex ss HEL lines courtesy Billj. I expected problems and not been disappointed. The unions at the top of the front wheel arches where the flex mates to the solid lines are badly rusted so i will probably have to cut the lines and make up some new ones.
I have an SP 270 series double lap flaring tool with dies/punches for 4.75mm anf 3/16" pipe. The coated pipe on the car is 4.85 so I guess the 4.75 od pipe is the correct one. I also have a stack of 3/16 unf male unions which do screw into the calipers but I guess there is a proper metric equivalent. The last time i used this kit was +30yrs when I was working on old MGs and Minors when I used copper brake pipe!!. Where do I buy pipe and unions for the Saab. The unions at the moment are steel. Presume brass is a better bet. What spec pipe? Thanks in advance for your advice.


Last edited by razani67 on Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 9000 brake lines
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:28 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:41 pm
Posts: 652
Location: Kippen STIRLING
Car Model: 9-5 Aero Sportwagen and more
razani67,

Most people use Cunifer rather than copper. It doesn't work harden then split if you need to re-do or adjust a bend. Also it doesn't sag like copper over modest lengths. You can buy 10m lengths from most good motor factors, together with a pack of metric unions. ( I think even EuroCarParts do them ) Worth replacing the flexy connections while you are at it. You can get steel braided ones made up for not a lot more. ( Search E-Bay ) Worth doing, especially on the front, since the standard brakes need all the help they can get. Be very careful picking the old pipe out of the clips under the car since they will be brittle and easy to snap.

Paul @ Kippen.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:57 pm 
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Been there, done that. Several times. Ended up replacing almost all the rigid pipes.

You need 3/16" tube (which is only 1/80 of a mm larger than 4.75mm so I doubt you could tell the difference). As Paul says, Cupro-Nickel (some people call it Cunifer but I believe that''s a trade-name) rather than copper.
The fittings are M10 (actually M10 x 1.0 but I doubt you'll find any different thread other than 1.0mm). There are different lengths but standard length is correct for the 9000 (and C900).
Any motor factor should be able to supply the mild steel ones (even Halfords do them, along with the tube).

You can get brass ones but some people say that is too soft, regardless of the fact that some of the fittings the unions screw into on the C900 are brass :roll:
GirlySaabFan has used them on her T7 project car.
You can also get stainless fittings. http://ccsfasteners.co.uk/stainless-bra ... c-124.html
The normal M10x1 male nut will do - you don't need fully-threaded.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:44 am 
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Thanks guys. Cunifer it is then. I think you have answered my next question Bill. The original pipes are 4.75mm plastic coated. 3/16" is 4.76mm.I have dies for both pipe sizes but it seems difficult to get 4.75. Are you saying that provided you have the mated fitting the 2 are interchangeable?
I like the idea of staimless fittings.
I haven't got round to the rear brakes yet but I expect to find the same issue. That will be a bit of a b****r as it will mean the long lines over the tank and under the car. Not looking forward to that.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:39 pm 
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Location: Queenborough, Kent
Car Model: 9000, 9-5 Aero & a Jaaaaag
this is what I used when re-making all the brake lines on mine - well, 2 lots of it - possibly slight overkill as I think I have most of the second lot of pipe left. Changed everything from ABS pump to each wheel, in my case I used brand new flexi hoses rather than HEL ones. You'll probably need to drop the fuel tank, though (I did).

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:53 am 
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razani67 wrote:
The original pipes are 4.75mm plastic coated. 3/16" is 4.76mm.I have dies for both pipe sizes but it seems difficult to get 4.75. Are you saying that provided you have the mated fitting the 2 are interchangeable?

Yes, it will make not a jot of difference in the real world.

The real difference is:
0.0125mm
or one 80th of a mm
or 12.5 microns
or 0.26% (of 4.75mm)

I doubt even the best flaring tool outside the laboratory will make a flare to that accuracy or even close. I would be surprised if the tube were manufactured to such a close tolerance to start with.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:34 am 
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3/16" it is then. One last question for the metallurgists amongst us-one has to be careful with ss fasterners and ideally use anti-scuffing paste to prevent seizing. That is for ss on ss. Presumeably there is nothing to worry about when we have dissimilar metals but the HEL fitting is ss so where it connects to the solid pipe I will have ss to ss- can that be an issue? I rather like the idea of using ss ends on the brake pipes.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:11 pm 
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Isn't it when metals are dissimilar that there is more chance of corrosion, electrochemically anyway.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:19 pm 
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I thought there was a particular problem with ss fasterners whereby it could possibly "weld" to its partner unless precautions were taken. Nothing to do with corrosion.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:31 pm 
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Ah, an unknown unknown for me. I'm curious as to the answer though.

Maybe different grades of stainless?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:45 pm 
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I heard/read somewhere that SS fastenings (bolts/nuts etc) should not be done up with a rattle gun as the vibration 'welded' them together. That was when I was planning on building a Robin Hood with a SS body (long ago).

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:53 am 
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Here you are;
http://www.estainlesssteel.com/gallingofstainless.html
http://www.pencomsf.com/wp-content/uplo ... ALLING.pdf
If you have ever wondered why you may have had problems with those stainless nuts on the wheelarch trim-look no further. If you cross thread and press on thinking it may be dirt on the thread-it's curtains. You will never free it.
I will press ahead with ss ends-just take precautions that it all goes up finger tight before the final compression so that I dont put any heat into it.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:47 pm 
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I've used a fair few stainless fasteners on my cars and never had them stick. Not even the ones holding the exhaust flanges together under the car. I don't think you'll have a significant problem. Even if you do (if you ever have occasion to undo them again) then I'll bet it'll be a lot less hassle than rusty mild steel fittings.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:07 pm 
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In general I echo your sentiments Bill but I have seen it happen. I used to work for an engineering company making high speed centrifuges in s/s. When it happens its out with the cutter. I have certainly had a few of the wheelarch nuts sieze, causing the bolt to snap or the head to turn in the holder. All they are saying is make sure the threads are clean and the bolt enters correctly. If you have muck in there or the bolt is askew so that you generate heat- then watch out. Good housekeeping really but it is less forgiving than steel


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:55 pm 
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I suppose I don't ccross-thread them. However, I've never had a wheel-arch nut seize either.
Still, don't cross-thread the fittings and no dirt will get in there anyway.

Or just use brass fittings and forget about stainless seizing.

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