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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:10 pm 
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Location: REMAINING UNFAITHFUL TO FACTORY STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS SINCE 1988
Car Model: OLD SAABS....NUMEROUS
HALF WAY THROUGH,6 MONTHS OF MIDNIGHT OIL.....ANOTHER 6 TO GO :roll:


OH, AND BEFORE ANY PURIST'S START SCREAMING ''YOU CAN'T DO THAT,THERE WERE ONLY 200 BLACK TWO DOORS''
I ALREADY HAVE......................................
AND PLEASE DON'T FORGET,THE 200 BLACK ONES AND 400 RED ONES(UK ESTIMATE) WERE PRODUCED PURELY SO THAT SAAB COULD HOMOLOGATE THE 40 KG LIGHTER ,STIFFER TWO DOOR SHELL FOR RALLYING PURPOSES.................... :shock:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:30 pm 
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Looking good there MrMango, what plan's do you have for further tweaks and can I have a go when tis all done? :wink:


BIRDIEMANGO wrote:
.....I already have!


:lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:00 pm 
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Location: REMAINING UNFAITHFUL TO FACTORY STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS SINCE 1988
Car Model: OLD SAABS....NUMEROUS
MR.MOONY MAN,WHEN IT IS DONE,I WOULD LOVE YOU TO HAVE A GO......... :shock:

I AM AFRAID ALL THE DECALS WILL BE IN 'CAPITALS' THOUGH.......

SIX MONTHS TO GO, IS AN ESTIMATE...........ASK NUTCASE !!!!!!

I TEND TO HAVE A BASH AT IT FOR WEEKS ON END,AND THEN GET THOROUGHLY PEED OFF,WITH IT SO LEAVE IT FOR SIX WEEKS............

AS YOU MAY HAVE GATHERED IT AINT GONNA REMAIN STANDARD.........LOTS OF TWEEKS.........HERE AND THERE.
AS BEFORE,A LITTLE AT A TIME,MONEY PREVAILING.............
EVERYTHING THAT I CAN MAKE MESELF,WILL BE......
SPECIAL ATTENTION TO HEAT DISSAPATION WILL BE PARAMOUNT........

ENGINE REBUILT,GAS-FLOWED HEAD,CUSTOM EXHAUST AND MANIFOLD, BESPOKE INTERCOOLER AND PIPEWORK,LOWERED AGAIN 40MM,BILSTEIN SHOCKS,REAR ANTI-ROLL BAR OFF CLASSIC 900.

THE SETTINGS OFF THE WHITE RALLY CAR SUSPENSION,I WILL TRANSFER STRAIGHT TO THIS ALSO..........
THE REAR AXLE SITS FURTHER BACK IN THE ARCHES, ON THIS 99T MODEL YEAR.........SO LONGER 'TORQUE' ARMS FROM A CLASSIC 900 WILL ALSO BE FITTED,WHICH AID TURN-IN,AND REDUCES EFFECTS OF UNDERSTEER.

THE IDEA IS TO GET THE CAR TO LAP 'AINTREE',IN THE SAME TIME AS THE DELLORTO TWIN-CARB SET-UP,I HAVE ON THE WHITE ONE..............THIS IS GONNA TAKE TIME MONEY,AND A LOT OF RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT.

FOR EVERY HALF SECOND,THAT YOU CHANGE GEAR IN THE TURBO,YOU WILL LOSE OUT TO THE NATURALLY ASPIRATED CAR,AS YOU NEED TO SPOOL-UP AND GET ON BOOST.
THIS MEANS THAT OVER A PERIOD OF 57 SECS AROUND THE TRACK,I AM LIKELY TO LOSE OUT, AROUND TWO AND A HALF TO THREE SECS.......
SO THE INCREASE IN POWER NEEDED TO COMBAT THIS,IS WHAT I AM AIMING FOR.A VICIOUS CIRCLE OF HEAT TRANSFER,I AM AFRAID.............MORE BOOST=MORE POWER=MORE HEAT=SOARING UNDER BONNET TEMPERATURES.

OR MAYBE I AM JUST MAD :roll:

THE DOORS ARE OFF A CLASSIC 900,TO SAVE THE SUPERB 'ORIGINALS'


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:20 pm 
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Have you got any more pictures detailing the process of welding up the sun roof? I've taken the housing off and wondering what to do.

The 900's are slightly different though, they have a lip on the front edge of the sunroof.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:28 pm 
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I don't know if you are aware of it but Two-stroke-to-Turbo did a very nice 99 T16 (see pic) a little while ago that I had the pleasure of taking for a spin so I'd definatley have something to compare your's to.

Speaking of comparison's have you had a chance to have a look around any of the other 99 T16's (Emmett for example..) to see what will and won't work?

Also, with regard's to lap times, do you have any knowledge of anti-lag or hybrid turbo's? - I ask because your passion thus far appears to be naturally aspirated toy's.

Oh, one last thin for you to look at - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsC4sjHt7kk - 5 studs!


BIRDIEMANGO wrote:
I AM AFRAID ALL THE DECALS WILL BE IN 'CAPITALS' THOUGH.......


Ha ha - Wouldn't expect anything less from you!


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:49 pm 
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Location: REMAINING UNFAITHFUL TO FACTORY STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS SINCE 1988
Car Model: OLD SAABS....NUMEROUS
THE TWO DOOR TURBO NEVER CAME WITH A STEEL SUNROOF,AS A FACTORY OPTION...ONLY THE THREE DOOR,DID....

MINE HAD A 'SPECIALIST' FITTED SLIDING STEEL ROOF FITTED,WHICH HAD LEAKED FROM NEW.
AS A RESULT OF THIS;
THE OLD CHAP WHOM OWNED THE CAR ,THEN REMOVED THE SLIDING ROOF PANEL,RIVETED A STEEL PLATE OVER THE SUNROOF APETURE,CUT OUT A SMALLER,APERTURE................AND FITTED A NON-LEAKING GLASS SUNROOF,LOVELY............. :roll:

AND DON'T SPEAK TO ME ABOUT VINYL ROOF'S :twisted:

THE REST OF THE CAR IS IN VERY GOOD NICK AS IT HAS BEEN STORED FOR 15 YEARS,AND HE HAD DRILLED HOLES IN THE FLOOR,TO LET THE WATER OUT............

THE FRONT EDGE OF THE ORIGINAL ROOF,THAT HAS BEEN NEATLY FOLDED DOWN...............THE HOLES ARE WHERE THE OLD CHAP HAS,'RIVETED' HIS STEEL PLATE IN PLACE.

WHEN WELDING THE 'APERTURE' UP,USE SMALL BURSTS OF 'WELD',AND TACK,ALTERNAETLY AROUND THE PERIPHERY OF THE,SUNROOF EDGE..........OR THE HEAT GENERATED WILL WARP AND DISTORT THE METAL..........

I GOT ME 'KID' BROTHER TO DO THIS,AS HE IS A CODED WELDER,AND MY WELDING RESEMBLES SEAGULL S^&TE :oops:

PATIENCE IS DEFINITLEY THE ORDER OF THE DAY.......... :roll: ,BORING :!:
I USED A 'ROOF' SECTION, OFF ANOTHER 99 TURBO,SO THAT THE SHAPE,CURVATURE AND, TWO METAL 'THICKNESSES' WERE UNIFORM,AND FORMED THE 'REPAIR' SECTION BY HAND............

HOWEVER SOME PICTURES FOR YOU;


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:20 pm 
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Location: REMAINING UNFAITHFUL TO FACTORY STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS SINCE 1988
Car Model: OLD SAABS....NUMEROUS
SORRY,MR.MOONY MAN,WE SEEMED TO POST AT THE SAME TIME THERE :oops:

I HAVE HAD LOADS OF TURBO'S OF ALL SORTS,LANCIAS,FIATS METROS,RENAULTS SO AM WELL AWARE OF THEIR SHORTCOMINGS COMPARED TO NATURALLY ASPIRATED STUFF.............
OF ALL THE UNO TURBO,WAS THE MOST EFFECTIVE..............THE GAUNTLET WAS THROWN DOWN BY 'FIAT' MANAGEMENT,TO CREATE THE FIRST 'MINIATURE' SUPERCAR...........THE RESULT BEING THE 'UNO TURBO'............

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU EVER HAD A GO IN ONE,BUT THEY WERE A PROPERLY SORTED LITTLE MACHINE,IN A VERY LIGHT 'TIN BOX' STRUCTURE,WITH AMAZING PERFORMANCE AND VERY LITTLE LAG,'INTERCOOLER' AND ALL....... :lol:

I WAS ALSO LUCKY ENOUGH TO SPEND TWO DAYS UP AT MALCOLM WILSONS 'M-SPORT' FACILITY (FORD WRC TEAM),WHEN THEY WERE DEVELOPING THE ESCORT COSWORTH,SO MUCH WAS TAKEN ON-BOARD AS I STRIPPED THE GRAVEL TEST CAR,DOWN.......... 8)

I CAN ALSO TELL YOU THAT,ANTI-LAG OR NO ANTI-LAG,YOU AINT GONNA CATCH A NORMALLY ASPIRATED MOTOR,WITH TWO COMPARABLE CARS SET-UP WITH THE SAME ENGINE CAPACITY.

THE FIRST THING,THE MK2 ESCORT LADS DID WITH THE'COSWORTH' ENGINE ,WHEN IT ARRIVED IN THE SIERRA,IS RIP IT OUT.........THROW THE TURBO,AND PISTONS AWAY...........AND BOLT A chubby BIG PAIR OF 48'S ON,BEFORE DROPPING IT IN THE ESCORT....

YEP I HAVE SEEN EMMETS 99,AND SPOKEN TO HIM, ALL ABOUT IT,ALSO SAW THE 2/TURBO SET-UP,16 VALVE TURBO,VERY NICE,SORRY NOT FOR ME THOUGH.........

I SHALL STICK TO THE 99 'WORKS' THEORY OF 8 VALVE SIMPLICITY,TOO MUCH POWER,SIMPLY CANNOT BE USED ON TRACK.200 BHP WILL BE SUFFICIENT,FOR MY REQUIREMENTS;

JUST REMEMBER THAT IF WE GO BACK TO THE '99/900 IN MOTORPORT 'THREAD,THAT ALSO THE 99T WILL BE CARRYING AN IMMENSE WEIGHT PENALTY,IN ENGINE ANCILLIARIES ,OVER THE N/A RALLYCAR.
TO COMBAT THIS ,THE TURBO 99,WILL PRODUCE, IMMENSE AMOUNTS OF 'DRIVESHAFT SNAPPING' TORQUE.....................BUT WILL REQUIRE A TOTALLY, DIFFERNET DRIVING APPROACH TO THE N/A CAR.
WE CAN BUT WAIT...........AND SEE :(


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 12:01 am 
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Location: Fliptop Towers, North Yorks...the flat bit.
Car Model: One or two...
Julian - am I right in thinking the 99s didn't have a dump valve, so it's easy to get compresssor stall on gear changes? If so, there's an easy way to help your spoolup time - a recirc valve to keep the air in the system...

I seem to recall one of the problems for the 99 turbo rally cars was the frequency they ate driveshafts, due to Stig & Pekka left-footing all the time & changing gear without the clutch, to keep the revs up & the boost up....you got a good supply of gearboxes & driveshafts? :lol:

Quote:
OH, AND BEFORE ANY PURIST'S START SCREAMING ''YOU CAN'T DO THAT,THERE WERE ONLY 200 BLACK TWO DOORS''
I ALREADY HAVE......................................
AND PLEASE DON'T FORGET,THE 200 BLACK ONES AND 400 RED ONES(UK ESTIMATE) WERE PRODUCED PURELY SO THAT SAAB COULD HOMOLOGATE THE 40 KG LIGHTER ,STIFFER TWO DOOR SHELL FOR RALLYING PURPOSES....................


Quite agree. Oh, and respect to the previous owner, nice sunroof bodge....NOT!

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 6:38 am 
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Location: REMAINING UNFAITHFUL TO FACTORY STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS SINCE 1988
Car Model: OLD SAABS....NUMEROUS
GEARBOXES/DRIVESHAFTS A PLENTY HERE :lol: .

THE GOAL IS FOR RELIABILITY...........IT IS NO FUN ,BEING SAT BY THE SIDE OF THE TRACK, WATCHING EVERYBODY ELSE FLY-BY.

THE COST OF MOTORSPORT IS EVER SOARING-
SUCH THAT MY N/A RALLY CAR HAS AN ALMOST 95% FINISHING RECORD................DARE I SAY IT...........ITS ULTRA-RELIABLE :shock:
BUT ONLY AFTER YEARS OF DEVELOPMENT................

WE MUST REMEMBER THAT EVEN AFTER INITIAL PROMISE(AND I HATE TO SAY THIS) THE 99 TURBO RALLY CAR,NEVER FULFILLED IT'S PROMISE AS A COMPETEITION CAR.............THERE ARE LIMITATION'S TO THE FRONT WHEEL DRIVE CONCEPT,WHICH BECAME ONLY TOO APPARENT TO SAAB ,IN THE YEAR 1980 :oops:

AS SUCH A SMALL COMPANY,WITH A LIMITED COMPETITION BUDGET.....VERY FEW 'WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP' EVENTS COULD BE CONTESTED,AND THE JOINING WITH THE JAPANESE COMPANY 'CLARION',PROVIDED VALUABLE RESOURCES THROUGH SPONSORSHIP................
SADLY IT WAS NOT ENOUGH..................

HASN'T DAMPENED MY ENTHUISIASM THOUGH...... :lol: :lol:

A PHOTO OF SAAB'S APPROACH TO 'BIRDIE'S' LIGHTWEIGHT THEORY,ON THE 'WORKS 99 TURBO' AT KINNEKULLE RACETRACK,WHERE STIG (NO,THE REAL ONE) HAMMERED THE CAR AROUND IN TEMPS EXCEEDING 38 DEG C............
I ASKED STIG IF WE COULD POSSIBLY SEE UNDER THE BONNET...........WHEN HE RETURNED.

BOTH HE AND 'ROLF MELLDE' BURNT THEIR FINGERS TRYING TO LIFT THE BONNET :shock: ............SUCH WERE THE UNDER BONNET TEMPERATURES.

YES, YOU CAN FIT RE-CIRC .DUMP VALVES,INTERCOOLERS -A- PLENTY,EXTERNAL WATER INJECTION ONTO THE INTERCOOLER,FANS ETC...............BUT YOU STILL COME UP AGAINST................HEAT :twisted:

THE LONGER THE PIPEWORK,AND RESTRICTIONS IN 'FLOW' THRU AN INTERCOOLER.......ONLY SERVES TO INCREASE TURBO LAG.
LIKE I SAY IT IS A VICIOUS CIRCLE, UPON WHERE YOU CAN REACH A POINT, THAT THE TURBO BECOMES COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE.............MORE BOOST DOES NOT ALWAYS EQUAL MORE POWER.

HEAT........... :twisted:


ANYONE FOR A 16 VALVE N/A MOTOR...............ONLY 225 INSTANT BHP

AWESOME..............WOULDN'T FIT IN MY POCKET.....THE TRUMPETS STUCK OUT TOO MUCH :(


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:36 am 
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I'm looking forward to seeing this one!

BM, what cam have you chosen?
I think you know my methodical approach to engine power.......start with the cylinderhead. I know it's not cheap, but going fast never really is, you can go from 42mm inlet valves up to 46mm.

Some good stuff here about tuning turbo engines http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/Turbo.htm

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 8:10 am 
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Location: Fliptop Towers, North Yorks...the flat bit.
Car Model: One or two...
I know budget is always going to be the constraint, but maybe there would be some mileage in going the opposite route to the one Saab took - keep the CR high & the boost low-ish, with a smaller lighter modern LPT turbo...and standalone management! Go for low-mid range boost & torque rather than top end power (but the head work etc will of course till help with that).

That way you have less issues with throttle response & lag, AND less boost = less heat... Let's face it, (OK with a 16V head & Trionic management) you can get an easy 220-240bhp from an LPT and oodles of torque from 1800 upwards 8)

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:22 am 
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Still not found the caps lock on your keyboard then?. I thought your absence may be due to you having set out on a hunt for it. Still ECCENTRIC, UNCONVENTIONAL and IGNORANT as ever I see.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:41 am 
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Mr Burrrrt wrote:
Still ECCENTRIC, UNCONVENTIONAL and IGNORANT as ever I see.

It would appear you're quite an authority on ignorance, Mr, Burrrrt.
If, like me, you find the caps too hard to read I suggest that, like me, you don't try to read them.

An attack like that has no place on UK Saabs.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:52 am 
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Well I'm sorry if I have a problem with someone continuing to be deliberately offensive when they have been asked nicely on many occasions not to be (actually I'm not sorry at all). Everybody else on this forum seems to be able to follow 'netiquette' except him it would seem.

It's a great shame because BIRDIEMANGO obviously knows his stuff, but only seems unable to express himself in a way that many people can't be bothered to read and/or find really annoying.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:16 pm 
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Maybe there is more to life than Netiquette.... Birdie has attended almost every Lancs meet since its relaunch last September, and has shared a considerable amount of knowledege, skills and made a lot of people laugh. Excercise your right to choice, and choose not to read if it offends. Personally, I am now used to it, and its also EASIER to find his posts! :lol:

Keep up the great work birdie, your contributions are substantial and entertaining!

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 2:11 pm 
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????? do people get offended if you write in capitals????

whatever next..... :?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 2:13 pm 
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jimmy_wynn wrote:
Maybe there is more to life than Netiquette.... Birdie has attended almost every Lancs meet since its relaunch last September, and has shared a considerable amount of knowledege, skills and made a lot of people laugh.


Does he shout everything as loud as possible in your face? I assume not, because you can't get away with that sort of behaviour in real life. It would be totally obnoxious and show utter disrespect for other people, no matter how informative or amusing what is being said/shouted. Why should an interent forum be any different?

Sorry for the thread hijack everybody.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 5:50 pm 
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Location: REMAINING UNFAITHFUL TO FACTORY STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS SINCE 1988
Car Model: OLD SAABS....NUMEROUS
BACK ON TOPIC,I MET A RATHER INTRESTING SWEDISH CHAP,WHILST ON ME RECENT SCANDINAVIAN JAUNT........
SADLY THERE WERE ONLY TWO 99 RALLY CARS,THAT ATTENDED 'THE FESTIVAL',ONE BEING THE AFOREMENTIONED 'MUSEUM' CAR.

THE OTHER WAS ORIGINALLY BUILT FOR THE ROAD,BEFORE BEING TRANSFORMED INTO THIS...............

TYPE IN ''www.saabrally.se'' AND CLICK ON ''GALLERI''

I SPENT ALL MORNING,WHILST HE ANSWERED, ALL ME QUESTIONS IN BROKEN SWEDISH/ENGLISH. SOMETHING I SHALL REMEMBER FOR A LONG TIME TO COME........... 8)

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:41 pm 
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BIRDIE....What will you be bringing to the national old bean??? :D

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:45 pm 
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ERM,FOSTERS,CARLING,TETLEY,WORTHINGTONS AND SOME WINE FOR THE LADIES :?:

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